Re: White Pine CUSeeMe Version 3.1.1

Jason Williams (
Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:37:55 -0500 (CDT)

On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, ike relucio wrote:
> Is all this fuss about the private chat all because some third-party add-on
> program decided to put <privately> in front of private chat while the white
> pine client doesn't ?.

If you want to get technical, the PC Cornell DOES support private chat and
it DOES send <privately> when you send private chat. As a test, I DC'd
with myself:
Streak -> Streak: wheee
Streak <private>: <privately> wheee

I believe Cornell is required to send any changes they make to White Pine,
so I'm not quite sure why White Pine didn't include it. I figure if the
Cornell version is doing it, the White Pine version wouldn't want to break
backwards compatibility. Who knows :)

> The 2.1.x version for Windows does not even mention
> anything in the help file about being able to send private chat.

Nope, the 2.1.X versions don't. The problem isn't about 2.1.X clients
SENDING private chat (there's GeekPC and Refmarshal and soon to be EGeek32
for that). The problem people are having is the 2.1.X versions can't tell
they are RECEIVING private chat from a White Pine 3.X version.

Oh, and if I recall, White Pine really advertised the private chat
capability in the 3.X version.

> As far as I know, the only real cu-seeme clients that gave you the
> ability of sending private chat is the 3.x version of white pine and the
> .92 version from cornell.

What other real CU clients are there except Cornell and White Pine?
There's CU-OS/2, an Amiga port of the Mac 0.80 version, and Q-SeeMe for
Linux. But those are definitely the minority.

> GeekTalk (for Macs) came first and GeekPC just did what GeekTalk
> did for Macs. Now people are sayingthat since GeekTalk and GeekPC placed
> <privately> in front of private chat, that White Pine should do the same

I can almost follow you here...except the Cornell 0.92 version also places
<privately> in front of private chat. This whole argument is rather moot
since White Pine is only hurting THEIR customers that are using the 2.X
versions. The Cornell Mac and PC versions can both distinguish 3.X's
private chat just fine.

I believe the problem to be a bit bigger though...I've mentioned in the
past about White Pine's market and how it's changed. It's not so much the
fact that they refuse to support the <privately> as much as it is White
Pine not realizing how many unhappy customers they have because of it and
how many GeekTalk, GeekPC, and Cornell users there are out there that HAVE
set the standard.

> or that since Brian Godette's ERef inserted the <privately> in front of
> private chat, that White Pine's reflectors should do the same.

I'm sure Brian would just LOVE White Pine to pieces if he didn't have to
design a reflector around fixing White Pine's bugs (well..second thought,
maybe he wouldn't) :)

A certain White Pine employee (who wishes to remain anonymous) also feels
the reflector shouldn't be designed around fixing bugs in the client. I
agree as well.

> Somebody needs to make a chronology of when private chat first appeared ---
> who did it, on what platform, and if it was a third-party (not cornell, not
> white pine) if it was based on any technical specification from either white
> pine or cornell.

I know GeekTalk from Chris Silverberg popped up at least a year and a half
ago...possibly longer. As far as technical specs, Cornell used to
(perhaps still does, I'm not sure) provide details on how to program
plug-ins for the Mac version. Unfortunately for White Pine (and the
CU-SeeMe community as a whole), White Pine didn't choose to continue
support for plug-ins on the Mac version and add it to the PC version. If
they had, we wouldn't be discussing private chat problems at all right
now. :)

You'd also probably have a lot more versatility with CU-SeeMe if people
could write plug-ins for it. I think it'd be cool to have stuff like file
transfers builtin to CU (though doing across the Aux-data channel would be
annoying). I do remember back when Aux-data was created with the Cornell
version (1994-1995 or so). It was a really big deal then since aux-data
was designed to be flexible.

Anyway...maybe Chris can comment on when GeekTalk came out and why it
supported <privately> to begin with. I can imagine it was for backwards
compatibility as well.

--    * Jason Williams -- Austin, Tx.  |     |       * University of Texas at Austin  | ___ |         * BS Computer Science             \_|_/
*************** **************|