Re: Security statement

Jason Williams (
Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:01:18 -0600 (CST)

On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Nick Faba wrote:
> Jason Williams wrote:
> > Point taken....but not exactly true.
> No, true...
> Something can be either Secure, or Not Secure...there's no middle ground
> here, boys...

No..NOT true :)
If you look at it like that, nothing is secure...because there will ALWAYS
be ways to get around security.
You could put 200 locks on your door and it still wouldn't keep your home
secure. there a difference between leaving your door wide open,
and putting 200 deadlocks on it? Yes..there's a big difference..But by
your definition, neither would be secure.
There ARE levels of security.

> > I don't see the
> > mass public walking around with their neighbor's credit history. The
> > people wil money and incentive can indeed find out a lot. The same
> > was true 20 years ago as well.
> 1. people need lots less incentive when it's this easy.2. I'm not
> worried about my neighbors...I'm worried about the other 6 billion
> people in the world

Why? The other 6 billion people in the world have no clue as to who you
are...Your neighbors already know much more about you than the 6 billion
other people. Your neighbors are much more likely to have the incentive
to TRY and look for information on you.
Until a few months ago, anyone on the web could look up driver's license
records and DMV records for ANYONE in Texas. From what I saw, most people
didn't just idly search thru the records..they searched for someone they
KNEW. Your neighbors know you and will know exactly what to look for if
they could access the information. To the other 6 billion people in the
world, you're just another meaningless name.

> Well, do we? I don't know how many people are aware of the amount of
> manipulation that is going on out there... Yes, benefits are currently
> outweighing privacy loss.... But how many people are actually making a
> choice when they use these items...

I can't answer for other people, but I think about it from time to
time..especially when I start getting more and more junk email.

> And what, praytell, do we do when we HAVE decided that our loss of
> privacy outweighs our convenience?
> Call all the electronics back? try to convince people after 20 years of
> using it that we don't want to anymore...?

Call all of it back? No..just refuse to use it. The market thrives on
people using the products. If enough people don't use them, the market
might think twice. A small boycott does no good..but if EVERYONE realized
the loss of privacy outweighed the benefits, then something can be done.
Even if nothing is done, you have the choice to use the technology or not.
If you don't want to be tracked and targeted, don't use cell phones,
credit cards, etc.

> and this shouldn't bother anyone? What happens when Bill Gates controls
> that function of advertising, (i.e. Web TV!!!) and "they" he decides
> that the only ads we NEED to see are MSoft ads? Don't mind that? How
> about if Black Families only got ads from Chitt'lin restaurants?

Most people I know would rather see NO commercials at it doesn't
matter which ones are on. I still click the mute button on the TV when
commercials come on. I have a feeling I'm not alone. Like it or not,
facts are already being collected by agencies to track your buying
patterns. When all this will surface, I don't know.

> i.e. LESS CHOICES for us!

Not necessarily...I doubt you'd get mad about saving money on the products
you buy most. Who wants to see commercials for $300,000 cars that they'll
never buy in their lifetime? We don't really CHOOSE the commercials right
now anyway, so it's a moot point.

> Exactly the problem...people are not concerned

Perhaps people aren't concerned because they don't care...If it's because
of lack of education, then something needs to be done. If people CHOOSE
to not care though, I don't see what's wrong with that.

> I have one comment... Secure = totally safe
> No Privacy = anything else!

Again..nothing is totally nothing is totally there is
NO privacy in the world :)

Speaking of security...I just found a HUGE hole in security of the White
Pine MeetingPoint reflector..but I'll try emailing White Pine...see if
they respond.

--    * Jason Williams -- Austin, Tx.  |     |       * University of Texas at Austin  | ___ |         * BS Computer Science             \_|_/
*************** **************|