CU-SEEME-L digest 1052

CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:56:37 GMT


CU-SEEME-L Digest 1052

Topics covered in this issue include:

1) To Keep Or Not To Keep
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
2) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
3) ip address newbie help
by Michael Kankiewicz <mkankiewicz@ns.wzrd.com>
4) No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by John Doleac <jdoleac@gte.com>
5) Re: ip address newbie help
by philip bernard <bernard.philip@hol.fr>
6) Re: hubble
by Adrian Winnard <adrian.w@easynet.co.uk>
7) You wanted content on CU-SeeMe?
by al@ina.com (Alfredo Lusa)
8) Impressive Chair for CUSM Re: Packard Bell's $1000 PC - WHAT DOES THIS
HAVE TO DO WITH CUSM????? - IT WILL RUN CUSM!!!!!!
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
9) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-S
by "Ulrich Kliegis" <Ulrich.Kliegis@kiel.netsurf.de>
10) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
by wizzard@icanect.net (K. Starr)
11) (Fwd) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
by jrobin@cutter.sincom.com
12) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
by Skip <Wahoo25@m1.sprynet.com>
13) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
by Mark Badger <mark@steinberg.net>
14) Re: Packard Bell's $1000 PC - The best deal around
by Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
15) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
16) Re: ip address newbie help
by Marc Lindahl <shark@dti.net>
17) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
18) To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
19) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Rl Sandoval <rsandova@whro.org>
20) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by ae330@lafn.org (Mark Goldstein)
21) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced
by Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
22) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by "Mark L. Bardenwerper" <bardenwe@vbe.com>
23) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by "Mark L. Bardenwerper" <bardenwe@vbe.com>
24) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Slider <mgp@inforamp.net>
25) White Pine Reflector price
by Steven Bolbot <sjb@dove.net.au>
26) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
27) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
28) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
29) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by wizzard@icanect.net (K. Starr)
30) Re:WP color codec & bw cam
by "Brian Dowtin" <dowtin@ncat.edu>
31) Re: White Pine Reflector price
by Ross Wheeler <rossw@albury.net.au>
32) Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
33) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
by Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:56:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
To: support@packardbell.com
Subject: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217004353.3145A-100000@serss1>

To: support@packardbell.com

The following is a well thought out message. I would appreciate an
equally accurate and informative reply. Thank you.

Less than a week ago I bought a Packard Bell PC (it will appear in
your records under owner Jacob Elkayam, s/n Y130270546+, m/n
842958105). Everything works great so far. However, the price I
paid, $1,050 (superb value), was a bit "too good to be true", and so
I've asked for a few comments from other previous owners of PackBell
PC's.

I don't take anyone's word for granted and I'm not impressed with a
few people who have had a few problems. I've heard good things and
I've heard bad things about PackBell machines. I'm here in an effort
to straighten a few things out before I decide whether I should keep
this PC or return it for full refund. I'm here also to post to the
public the truth as soon as you give it to me (because I've had a few
people ask for my recommendation to purchase a PC). Unless you have a
problem with that, I will post on the internet my findings to alert
future buyers or to encourage future buyers, accordingly.

I expect your reply to be fully legally binding so I request for your
name and position in PackBell. I will give you guys a call and orally
verify any information furnished. I just don't want to hear all
positive things and then when a problem occurs to have to fight with
anyone at your company.

1. Someone said that he upgraded his PC's modem from a 14.4 to a 28.8
and that PackBell took that action as "voiding the warranty". His
upgrading the modem had nothing to do with a blown up motherboard
which occured a few months AFTER the upgrade was done. Now:
a. If I upgrade the memory from 16MB to 32 or more, will that void
my warranty?
b. If I add a different harddrive or replace the current 1.2GB
harddrive, will that void my warranty?
c. If I replace the modem (which is also my soundcard and
speakerphone) with an upcoming 56.6 modem, an AWE64, whatever
else I deem useful for my needs - will that void my warranty?

2. I understand that PackBell uses serviceable used parts (obviously
in perfect working condition), and I couldn't care about that. If
it works, it works. However, I've heard from someone that his
motherboard burned while still under warranty, and was replaced. A
few months later, just after his warranty expired, his motherboard
burned again. Evidentally the life expectancy of used parts is
shorter than new parts. So my question: How much does the extended
warranty cost and for how long? And if I buy the PC with a gold
visa or mastercard, I receive an additional year on the warranty,
correct? (You may not be able to answer me that.)

3. A friend of mine was willing to bet with me that the fan on my
PackBell will die pretty quickly. I hope this problem has been
fixed with newer models and I'm hoping maybe you could reassure
me in this regard.

Thank you,
Ron Elkayam

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 02:48:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
To: Andrew Murn <amurn@tpgi.com.au>
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu,
Multiple recipients of list IL-TALK <IL-TALK@taunivm.tau.ac.il>,
Multiple recipients of list IL-BOARD <IL-BOARD@taunivm.tau.ac.il>
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217023534.3145C-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Andrew Murn wrote:

> Hmmmm - quite apart from the fact that what computer you use has nothing
> whatso-ever to do with this forum, your e-mail is provocative and hints at
> blackmail.

I'm a POTENTIAL customer and in no way did I hint I expect any special
treatment. I stated the fact that if they practice shoddy/unfair business
I WILL let the public know. Whichever answer they give me, is what I will
forward on as their standard practice. So if you consider me forcing
Pack Bell to upgrade their standards or modify their practice for all
customers as "blackmail", feel free to see it that way...

> If I worked for Packard Bell, I would ignore your e-mail.

They do so and I'll continuously email them and call them until they give
me a STRAIGHT answer. If they don't, I'll definitely return the product.

> I thought of wishing you good luck, but you don't deserve it.

Damnit. If I decide to stay with the PackBell, I sure do need every
little piece of that. ;)

Flame ya later, boobie
Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:48:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Kankiewicz <mkankiewicz@ns.wzrd.com>
To: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu
Subject: ip address newbie help
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.93.970217104539.24932A-100000@ns.wzrd.com>

Hi all. I know that you need to know your ip address for someone to
connect. However, my understandind is that when you dial in to your
provider, a temporary ip address is "assigned". If this is true, how can
you know in advance what your ip address is? Thanks,
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:27:59 -0500
From: John Doleac <jdoleac@gte.com>
To: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu
Subject: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
Message-ID: <3308870D.22F4@gte.com>

I got a new Conncetix color camera and tried it with CU-SeeMe, worked
fine, then tried it with Enhanced CU-SeeMe. Worked with that, too, but
now, I can not send video with (plain) CU-SeeMe. I get no picture at
all. I can still make movies and take quickPicts, but nothing in the
interactive application.

I've tried re-installing everything, removing as much of the Enhanced
stuff as I can find.

What's wrong?

John Doleac
jdoleac@gte.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 22:23:43 +0100
From: philip bernard <bernard.philip@hol.fr>
To: mkankiewicz@ns.wzrd.com
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: ip address newbie help
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970217212343.006874d0@pop.hol.fr>

At 10:48 17/02/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi all. I know that you need to know your ip address for someone to
>connect. However, my understandind is that when you dial in to your
>provider, a temporary ip address is "assigned". If this is true, how can
>you know in advance what your ip address is? Thanks,
> Michael
>

elementary, my dear
you get it on a reflector,
with a clik on the right inferior corner

hope it helps
bernard , from paris (not texas)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:04:33 +0000
From: Adrian Winnard <adrian.w@easynet.co.uk>
To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: hubble
Message-ID: <l03010d00af2e59de8125@[194.154.99.146]>

More comments on Eb video of the Hubble Shuttle mission at
http://netra.exploratorium.edu/hubble/

Adrian said:
>>Well, I saw a series of "live" stills with a couple of minutes between each
>>frame! Not quite "live video". It was interesting to see though - and
>>impressive in its own way. Good RealAudio of course also.

John Ingham said:
>Over a 28,800 modem I saw quite reasonable quality color video running at
>about 1 frame every 2 seconds or so. Of course the picture content was
>pretty static only changing every several minutes, except when they were
>running shots from Mission Control and during the space walks when there
>was continuous movement available. But at other times, by looking closely
>at the static shot I could tell that I still had new frames incoming every
>2 seconds by observing small changes in the noise pattern in each frame.

Ahh yes! Tried again with more success. Watching the bps coming in it was
possible to get almost continuos movement when receiving 26000 to 30000.
Unfortunately it only lasted for less than a minute or so at those good
rates...then nothing for a while. Potential was well demonstrated however.
Definitely worth a look - a much more cohesive image than CU-SeeMe.

Adrian Winnard

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: al@ina.com (Alfredo Lusa)
To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: You wanted content on CU-SeeMe?
Message-ID: <v02110108af25eab15714@[207.88.163.17]>

You got it!!

INTERNET alfredo in cooperation with Psychic TARA,
Rush LIMBAUGH'S illegitimate feminist daughter will
broadcast the last Psychic Revelation for the 20th Century.

40 Gifted and Gorgeous Drag Queens will be going into
spasmodic trance for 24hrs straight to tell the world
and YOU! what is in store for the new millennium.

Join us along with Allen Gingsberg from NY, William Burroughs
from KANSAS, Poppy Z. Brite from New Orleans and the Sisters of Perpetual
Indulgence and MORE from SF, California via CU-SeeMe all day Feb 21-22.

For more info, please visit our website at:
ina.com/~tara.

This Netcast is a benefit for Lyric.
(http://thecity.sfsu.edu/~lyric/)

_______________________________
Alfredo Lusa
INTERNET alfredo
http://ina.com/

open 24hrs: 790-A Brannan Street
San Francisco, CA, U.S.A.
415.437.3140 T
415.437.3149 F

PS: We are still looking for more reflectors to join with.
If you have one available and would like to join us, please
let us know.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:13:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
To: nvadnais <nvadnais@connectnet.com>
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu,
Multiple recipients of list IL-BOARD <IL-BOARD@taunivm.tau.ac.il>
Subject: Impressive Chair for CUSM Re: Packard Bell's $1000 PC - WHAT DOES
THIS HAVE TO DO WITH CUSM????? - IT WILL RUN CUSM!!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217150257.2293A-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, nvadnais wrote:

> say, could anyone suggest a hot deal on computer furniture? you know, like
> a cool desk under $50?

Heh.

> i'm sure you folks on this list know what are the best ones to use for
> CUSM.

Well, come to think of it, I WAS looking for a nice leather high back
chair for my PC usage pleasure. Something under $200. I mean, I only
spend a few bloody hours every single day on a chair... (10x more than in
my car, actually.) I looked in several mail order catalogs, CompUSA,
Office Depot, Office Max, and others, and the nicest looking chair I found
thusfar was from Demark's mailorder catalog. I scanned its picture -
http://www.fiu.edu/~relkay01/demark04b.jpg

I know I shouldn't buy a chair by the way it looks ONLY, so perhaps
someone did in fact bought this particular chair and liked it. It does
look very sexy. Are there nicer chairs out there? (Tastes may vary,
fcourse)

Thanks for reminding me.
Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:28:32 +0100
From: "Ulrich Kliegis" <Ulrich.Kliegis@kiel.netsurf.de>
To: John Doleac <jdoleac@gte.com>, CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-S
Message-ID: <m0vwZZa-0001JfC@kiel.netsurf.de>

> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:27:59 -0500
> Reply-to: jdoleac@gte.com
> From: John Doleac <jdoleac@gte.com>
> To: <CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu>
> Subject: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
> X-To: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu

> I got a new Conncetix color camera and tried it with CU-SeeMe,
> worked fine, then tried it with Enhanced CU-SeeMe. Worked with
> that, too, but now, I can not send video with (plain) CU-SeeMe. I
> get no picture at all. I can still make movies and take quickPicts,
> but nothing in the interactive application.
>
> I've tried re-installing everything, removing as much of the
> Enhanced stuff as I can find.
>
> What's wrong?
>

John,
did you look into the cuseeme.ini file in the windows directory (yep,
that's where that little bugger hides...

I guess it remains set to color. Unfortunately, Wp and Cornell use
the same naming convention for their competing, not 100% compatible
(see your problem!) systems.

Let us know what you find out.

Ulli
----------------------------------------------------------
Don't flame me, I'm only the keyboard player...

Ulrich.Kliegis@kiel.netsurf.de
http://kiel.netsurf.de/homes/Ulrich.Kliegis/Welcome.html
Business:
http://home.t-online.de/home/nordcom

Ulrich G. Kliegis Phone: +49 431 331144 Fax: +49 431 331146

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:54:51 -0500
From: wizzard@icanect.net (K. Starr)
To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <199702172108.QAA04814@foo.icanect.net>

>On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Andrew Murn wrote:
>
>> Hmmmm - quite apart from the fact that what computer you use has nothing
>> whatso-ever to do with this forum, your e-mail is provocative and hints=
at
>> blackmail.
>
>I'm a POTENTIAL customer and in no way did I hint I expect any special
>treatment. I stated the fact that if they practice shoddy/unfair business
>I WILL let the public know. Whichever answer they give me, is what I will
>forward on as their standard practice. So if you consider me forcing
>Pack Bell to upgrade their standards or modify their practice for all
>customers as "blackmail", feel free to see it that way...

Personally, I disagree that "what computer you use has nothing whatso-ever
to do with this forum." If someone discovered a "box" that runs delivers a
30 fps video signal with crisp audio for $500 *and* makes coffee, would you
prefer they keep it a secret? Conversely, if you were condsidering purchase
of a system primarily for CU-SeeMe, wouldn't you want to know if others have
used the same system in that regard and found it (1) adequate, (2)
exceptional, or (3) a dog?

As to Ron's letter to Packard-Bell, I admire the initiative. The internet
has delivered into our hands the most powerful and effective consumer tool
ever. For the first time we can, as individuals en masse, enforce upon
businesses our needs and demands WITHOUT resort to expensive, inefficient,
and often ineffective, government regulation. Companies are at last being
forced to direct their focus where it always should have been -- the=
customer. =20

>> If I worked for Packard Bell, I would ignore your e-mail.
>
If you worked for me and treated a customer request in such a shabby,
cavalier manner, you would be looking for work elsewhere. There is a sign
which hangs in many businesses: "Customers are not an interruption of our
work, They are the purpose of it." Unfortuantely, too many businesses pay
no more than lip service to these words. Fortunately, most of those
ultimately fail.

>They do so and I'll continuously email them and call them until they give
>me a STRAIGHT answer. If they don't, I'll definitely return the product.
>
Why should Ron not expect answers to his legitimate questions? If a
business is afraid to provide answers, then something IS wrong. And why
should these answers not be communicated to the rest of us? Ron is IMO
providing a service here to other potential Packard Bell purchasers on this
list and ALSO to Packard Bell if the answers to the questions are
satisfactory. And if the answers are not satisfactory, then Packard Bell is
providing not a service but a DISservice to its customers, present and=
future.

A few years ago a book entitled "Guerilla Marketing" was published. What we
are seeing here is an example of guerilla consumerism. Both are ultimately
benefical to the economic environment overall. Rather then being
discouraged, both should be encouraged, and the use of the net, including
lists such as this, hailed for the truly marvelous advancement that it is to
both producers and consumers, which all of us are in some form to some
degree. Why the producer/consumer equation should have become so
conceptually separated is a mystery to me. Hopefully, with tools like the
net, and the willingness of those like Ron to use them, this distinction
will diminish and we will all benefit.

>> I thought of wishing you good luck, but you don't deserve it.
>
>Damnit. If I decide to stay with the PackBell, I sure do need every
>little piece of that. ;)

Well, FWIW Ron has MY wishes of good luck!!!

Regards to all,

Kent Starr
aka Wizzard=A9
mailto:wizzard@icanect.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:33:54 +0000
From: jrobin@cutter.sincom.com
To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: (Fwd) Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <199702172235.OAA14686@cutter.sincom.com>

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <Single-user mode>
To: wizzard@icanect.net
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:16:05

a well intentioned, non-flaming comment wizzard.............

The type and capacity of a computer that a person has can indeed
influence capabilities on CU-SeeMe.... and thus truly does seem like
a relevant question on such a listserv. Even if it didn't.....is all
the anger/flaming necessary? The person was asking for some advice.
If redirecting is necessary..........does belittling need to be a
part of that?

I absolutely love the world of networking here.......but continue to
be amazed by those who need to dump anger or other negative attention
on very well intentioned persons. Was it fun?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:55:08 -0800
From: Skip <Wahoo25@m1.sprynet.com>
To: wizzard@icanect.net
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <3308E1CC.1B5@m1.sprynet.com>

K. Starr wrote:
>

For the first time we can, as individuals en masse, enforce upon
> businesses our needs and demands WITHOUT resort to expensive, inefficient,
> and often ineffective, government regulation. Companies are at last being
> forced to direct their focus where it always should have been -- the customer.
>
> A few years ago a book entitled "Guerilla Marketing" was published. What we
> are seeing here is an example of guerilla consumerism. Both are ultimately
> beneficial to the economic environment overall. Rather then being
> discouraged, both should be encouraged, and the use of the net, including
> lists such as this, hailed for the truly marvelous advancement that it is to
> both producers and consumers, which all of us are in some form to some
> degree. Why the producer/consumer equation should have become so
> conceptually separated is a mystery to me. Hopefully, with tools like the
> net, and the willingness of those like Ron to use them, this distinction
> will diminish and we will all benefit.
>
With the exception of publications such as Consumer Reports, ZD Net,
etc. we consumers have been forced to largely rely on manufacturers for
information about their products. Hardly an unbiased source. As a group,
we have not been able to speak directly to each other and share
information and experiences. Now we can. IMHO we are in the midst of a
communication revolution that already has changed significantly the way
many of us approach purchasing decisions. As the purchasers of goods and
services become better informed, the providers of same must become
better or perish. That would probably happen anyway to a company making
a crummy product but now it will happen much faster and fewer of us will
have to endure products made by companies with great advertising but
poor or nonexistent quality control. How many Pintos would have been
sold if a forum such as this existed for car buyers?

Skip

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:03:48 -0800
From: Mark Badger <mark@steinberg.net>
To: wizzard@icanect.net
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep
Message-ID: <3308E3D4.567E@steinberg.net>

i consider all this a spam. i am not interested in packard bell. i am
intersted in cu-seeme. cu-seeme is the raison d'etre of the mailing
list, that is why i subscribed. ron is using my interest in cu-seeme as
leverage for his interest in packard bell, without my permission. that
is why i consider it spam.

conversely, if the mailing list was entitled "packard-bell" or his beef
was with wpine or cornell, this forum would be an entirely appropriate
place to raise any issues he might have. as it stands, however, this
thread constitutes net-abuse and i regret feeling the need to voice my
issues regarding it.

m

ps-> obligatory cu-seeme content:

pleas please please will the programmers at wpine and cornell write
default values for send & receive that are appropriate for 28.8 modems.
by far the majority of users of the softwares use such modems.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:19:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
To: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Packard Bell's $1000 PC - The best deal around
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970217181921.13018C-100000@sria.com>

> My dad just bought his first PC - a Packard Bell PM 7130 (Pack Mate) for
> $1,050 including tax. I have to admit it was the best deal on a PC I've
> ever seen. These machines are going to vanish like hotcakes, is my
> belief. I actually summed up the components to see how much it'll cost me
> to build by myself a comparable machine and it came out AT LEAST $200
> more. So what the hell!

The horror stories I could tell would fill a CD-ROM!!!!

> We got 30 days to return it, so I'm looking for horror stories or tips on
> possibly a better deal(?)
>

Return it before it's too late!!!!

Regards,
Jackie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 18:20:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
To: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970217181957.13018D-100000@sria.com>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, John Doleac wrote:

> I got a new Conncetix color camera and tried it with CU-SeeMe, worked
> fine, then tried it with Enhanced CU-SeeMe. Worked with that, too, but
> now, I can not send video with (plain) CU-SeeMe. I get no picture at
> all. I can still make movies and take quickPicts, but nothing in the
> interactive application.
>

This has nothing directly to do with John's problem, but I just want to
say that I feel sorry for all you guys who are buying Connectix cameras.
They bought a couple of them where I work and were not all that happy with
them. I told them about the Compro camera. They tried one and bought two
more right away after that. It's not that the Connectix is all that
terrible, but the Compro is just better all around. And the price isn't
all that different.

But I suppose it takes all kinds. After all, there are even people who
are still buying Packard Bell computers.

Regards,
Jackie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:59:57 -0500
From: Marc Lindahl <shark@dti.net>
To: mkankiewicz@ns.wzrd.com, <CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: ip address newbie help
Message-ID: <l03020702af2e6902d64d@[199.93.175.112]>

At 10:48 AM -0500 2/17/97, Michael Kankiewicz wrote:
>Hi all. I know that you need to know your ip address for someone to
>connect. However, my understandind is that when you dial in to your
>provider, a temporary ip address is "assigned". If this is true, how can
>you know in advance what your ip address is? Thanks,
> Michael

On the Macintosh, if you're running Open Transport (which you should!),
there's many ways. Try the program MacTCP Watcher (http://shareware.com).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:19:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
To: Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com>
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217191749.22476A-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Jacqueline Chados wrote:

> But I suppose it takes all kinds. After all, there are even people who
> are still buying Packard Bell computers.

Don't forget to add the ":)", or we may wrongfully think you're an
asshole. XXOOXXXOX

Flame ya later,
Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:11:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
To: support@packardbell.com
Subject: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217193151.22476B-100000@serss1>

Dear Packard Bell,

I have sent you a message yesterday and still have not received a reply to
it. I will attempt to resend this message several more times until I get
some response. If by the end of the week I do not hear from you I will
have to postal mail Packard Bell headquarters just to make sure the guys
at the top are aware of this practice of ignoring email sent to
support@packardbell.com. After this point I will have 20+ days to wait
for an answer. On the 30th day from the day of purchase, I will return
the system for full refund.

Less than a week ago I bought a Packard Bell PC (it will appear in
your records under owner Jacob Elkayam, s/n Y130270546+, m/n
842958105). Everything works great so far. However, the price I
paid, $1,050 (superb value), was a bit "too good to be true", and so
I've asked for a few comments from other previous owners of PackBell
PC's.

I don't take anyone's word for granted and I'm not impressed with a
few people who have had a few problems. I've heard good things and
I've heard bad things about PackBell machines. I'm here in an effort
to straighten a few things out before I decide whether I should keep
this PC or return it for full refund. I'm here also to post to the
public the truth as soon as you give it to me (because I've had a few
people ask for my recommendation to purchase a PC). Unless you have a
problem with that, I will post on the internet my findings to alert
future buyers or to encourage future buyers, accordingly.

I expect your reply to be fully legally binding so I request for your
name and position in PackBell. I will give you guys a call and orally
verify any information furnished. I just don't want to hear all
positive things and then when a problem occurs to have to fight with
anyone at your company.

1. Someone said that he upgraded his PC's modem from a 14.4 to a 28.8
and that PackBell took that action as "voiding the warranty". His
upgrading the modem had nothing to do with a blown up motherboard
which occured a few months AFTER the upgrade was done. Now:
a. If I upgrade the memory from 16MB to 32 or more, will that void
my warranty?
b. If I add a different harddrive or replace the current 1.2GB
harddrive, will that void my warranty?
c. If I replace the modem (which is also my soundcard and
speakerphone) with an upcoming 56.6 modem, an AWE64, whatever
else I deem useful for my needs - will that void my warranty?

2. I understand that PackBell uses serviceable used parts (obviously
in perfect working condition), and I couldn't care about that. If
it works, it works. However, I've heard from someone that his
motherboard burned while still under warranty, and was replaced. A
few months later, just after his warranty expired, his motherboard
burned again. Evidentally the life expectancy of used parts is
shorter than new parts. So my question: How much does the extended
warranty cost and for how long? What does the extended warranty
cover and what not? If I can isolate the problem myself and
know EXACTLY what needs to be replaced, will you still charge
me for "labor" when I don't need any labor but just replacement
part of the defective component? (I build computers and I can
isolate problems myself.) I suspect that an extended warranty
covers only parts and possibly only SOME parts. Most importantly:
does the extended warranty cover the monitor, motherboard+cpu,
FAN, and harddrive?

3. A friend of mine was willing to bet with me that the fan on my
PackBell will die pretty quickly. I hope this problem has been
fixed with newer models and I'm hoping maybe you could reassure
me in this regard.

4. The modem/soundcard/software that comes with my model does not
support Caller ID, does it?

Thank you,
Ron Elkayam

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:38:24 -0800
From: Rl Sandoval <rsandova@whro.org>
To: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
Message-ID: <33093240.697C@whro.org>

> Subject: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:11:04 -0500 (EST)
> From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu>
> To: <CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu>

Hey Ron,

Hmmm. Pardon, but are you ALSO sending this to Packard-Bell?

Sandy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 17:56:31 -0800
From: ae330@lafn.org (Mark Goldstein)
To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified)
Message-ID: <199702180156.AB21862@lafn.org>

First of all, this does NOT belong on this list, in my opinion. Your
beef (or lack thereof) with Packard Bell has absolutely nothing to do
with CU-SeeMe. If you were asking if a Packard Bell machine can run
CU-SeeMe or if you're having a particular problem with your machine
running CU-SeeMe, that's different. But you're not at this point (unless
I've missed something).

Secondly, I can tell you that you are totally lacking in knowledge of the
way a business works if you think they're going to give you an instant
response to the type of email you sent. Besides the fact that the people
who receive the email at Packard Bell are not going to have the type of
authority to make policy statements on behalf of Packard Bell, yours is
only one of possibly hundreds of emails which were sent over the
weekend. Give it a chance, just as you would with a snail-mail message.

And lastly, as the former liaison to the president of Packard Bell I can
tell you that your attitude is not going to get you as far nor as quickly
as you would get if you were more pleasant. Ever hear the phrase "you
catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? Try it sometime, it
works. I guarantee you that when I was there, a request such as yours
would be answered, but it sure wouldn't get top priority. It would have
to go thru all kinds of channels, possibly taking weeks, so that all the
legalities and such could be ensured before it was answered.

I'll get off my soapbox now and hopefully you will get back to discussing
CU-SeeMe and not your beefs with any manufacturer (except maybe White Pine).

Mark Goldstein

P.S. My apologies to the list, but I did respond to this "gentleman" via
private email when his original note was posted. Apparently he doesn't
want to hear from the list anyway, so why he posted here is beyond me.

P.P.S. Flames will be cheerfully ignored.

--
                                \\\//                      To err is human,
                               -(@ @)-                     To moo, bovine.
                       -----oOO--(_)--OOo-----            
  Mark Goldstein  ae330@lafn.org  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/1512

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com> To: jrobin@cutter.sincom.com Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970217212638.14702A-100000@sria.com>

Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 jrobin@cutter.sincom.com wrote:

> Jackie..... > Please share more about the Compro camera? > Price? > Compatibility? > Features?

I posted a review after I bought one for myself a couple of months ago. I think Squeek was going to post that on his cu-seeme WWW pages. I'm not sure if he actually posted it though.

Anyways, I checked out the Connectix and didn't like some things about it. I was going to buy it anyways, but fortunately I stumbled accross the Compro. I got mine over the web at www.chest.com/value. They seem like a good outfit, very customer service oriented. I've since seen it in a couple of computer catalogs, also. Where I work, they just bought a couple of Compros from the www.chest.com place and they came with rebate certificates. I think tha,t with the rebates, the Compro might now cost less than the Connectix. But even though I paid a few bucks more at the time I bought mine, I'm glad I didn't go with the Connectix. The biggest advantage for me was that I didn't need to deal with an A/B switch to share my parallel port between my printer and the camera. Also, I think the Compro produces better images than the Connectix.

If I can find my review in my OUT mailbox, I'll forward you a copy of it.

Regards, Jackie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:37:30 -0600 From: "Mark L. Bardenwerper" <bardenwe@vbe.com> To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe Message-ID: <330915EA.4EEF@vbe.com>

Ron Elkayam wrote:

> Don't forget to add the ":)", or we may wrongfully think you're an > asshole. XXOOXXXOX

Ron, I am tired of your negative dialogue on this listserv. I respect your knowledge, but I really get fed up with this steady stream of caustic remarks. I was going to say something a few messages ago, when you boorishly barged in here with your stuff about your vendetta with Packard Bell. Also you made some rather thoughtless remarks about a newby. Remember when you were a newby? But you continue to hide behind your modem like some drivers hide behind their cars. I am willing to bet that face to face you are a gentleman. But get behind a computer and you turn into some egotistical, insensitive jerk. I think that you should get some help with your misplaced agressions before you do yourself or someone else some irreparable harm. Mark L. Bardenwerper >:~{

EVERYONE PLEASE LIMIT YOURSELVES TO POSITIVE COMMENTS FROM NOW ON!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:40:37 -0600 From: "Mark L. Bardenwerper" <bardenwe@vbe.com> To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <330916A5.36DE@vbe.com>

Ron Elkayam wrote: > > Dear Packard Bell, > And on and on > > Thank you, > Ron Elkayam

Enough of this on this listserv. Mark L. Bardenwerper #:?(

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:42:41 -0500 From: Slider <mgp@inforamp.net> To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <33091721.3FC6@inforamp.net>

Mark Goldstein wrote:

<diatribe deleted>

Dear Hoover Vacuum Cleaner Company,

I recently purchased your Deluxe High-Speed-Turbo Suck-The-Life-Out-Of Dirt model. Yesterday I noticed that my cat Fluffy was missing. You have two days to return my beloved kitty. Your failure to do so will result in my posting this letter to the alt.knitters.anonymous newgroup.

Please govern yourself accordingly.

Slider ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:06:15 +1000 From: Steven Bolbot <sjb@dove.net.au> To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: White Pine Reflector price Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970218040615.00750020@dove.net.au>

Hi Can anyone tell me the current price for the White Pine Reflector software? Thanks - Steven Bolbot ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ,- __ -, / \___/ /__ _ _____/ \ Steven Bolbot. / _ / _ / _ \ |/ / -_) _ \ Assistant Network Manager, DOVE Australia. /.- \_,_/\___/___/\__/ -.\ Email: Steven.Bolbot@dove.net.au A U S T R A L I A Finger sjb@dove.net.au for my PGP public key. http://dove.net.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:12:48 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu> To: Rl Sandoval <rsandova@whro.org> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217231223.3528A-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Rl Sandoval wrote:

> Hmmm. Pardon, but are you ALSO sending this to Packard-Bell?

Fcourse.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:28:07 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu> To: Mark Goldstein <ae330@lafn.org> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu, Multiple recipients of list IL-TALK <IL-TALK@taunivm.tau.ac.il>, Multiple recipients of list IL-BOARD <IL-BOARD@taunivm.tau.ac.il> Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217231359.3528B-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mark Goldstein wrote:

> Give it a chance, just as you would with a snail-mail message.

You must be kidding me. Replies from ALL sale departments must occur WITHIN THE DAY if not the hour. This is essentially a SALE question, for if I don't like the answer, *there will be no sale*.

> And lastly, as the former liaison to the president of Packard Bell I can > tell you that your attitude is not going to get you as far nor as quickly > as you would get if you were more pleasant.

My friend, I give compliments where complimets are due and OTOH I tell whomever I'm talking to that I KNOW a lot in the subject so they won't try to slip me the soap. I did commend PB for their excellent value machine and that it works PERFECTLY for me. I just want to make sure it will continue doing so, that is all. (I like it A LOT so far.)

> I guarantee you that when I was there, a request such as yours > would be answered, but it sure wouldn't get top priority. It would have > to go thru all kinds of channels, possibly taking weeks, so that all the > legalities and such could be ensured before it was answered.

That's fine with me. They got 30 days. No answer, no biggie, I return the machine and my dad/sister/uncle/dog buys the exact same model immediately, and PB has 30 more days to give me an answer... I see no moral obstacle in playing these games when such means are necessary. Do you?

> P.S. My apologies to the list, but I did respond to this "gentleman" via > private email when his original note was posted. Apparently he doesn't > want to hear from the list anyway, so why he posted here is beyond me.

That's really strange. Why do you think I still keep this machine if I hadn't heard several very good marks for the PB, one of which FROM YOUR END (and several others not affiliated with PB)? Where do you think I got the tip on the fan (SEVERAL users CORROBORATED that fact) and anything else mentioned in my second post (first email to support@PB)?

I asked for reviews and I got what I wanted and for that I thank you and all who have contributed to my research. Now for me to make an informative decision on what I should do next, I await PB's reply.

God bless & all that good stuff, Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:32:03 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu> To: Jacqueline Chados <jackie@sria.com> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217232853.3528C-100000@serss1>

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Jacqueline Chados wrote:

> You are wasting you time. The PB operation has a well-deserved reputation > for being unfriendly AFTER the sale. I have serveral friends who wish they > never bought a PB computer. I don't know of anyone who has had a good > experience with them over the long haul. Any satisfaction my friends have > had with PB came to a sad conclusion the first time something went wrong, > and something went wrong with ALL of them!! These days computers don't > break UNLESS they are PB's. > > Regards, > Jackie

Jackie, can you please tell me what can POSSIBLY go wrong if I backup my PC once a week and NOT even open the case (or do any modifications)? I called PB and they have a service center 20 minutes drive away. What the hell do I care if it breaks every 6 months as long as I'm covered for 3 years? After 3 years it'll be worth maybe $400 anyways. And I'm saving right now $300+ instead of going with a competitive product. So I can only win, no?

Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:19:27 -0500 From: wizzard@icanect.net (K. Starr) To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe Message-ID: <199702180432.XAA09326@foo.icanect.net>

<snip>

>EVERYONE PLEASE LIMIT YOURSELVES TO POSITIVE COMMENTS FROM NOW ON! > "Oh Terence this is stupid stuff. You eat your victuals fast enough. There can't be much amiss, 'tis clear to see the rate you drink your beer! But oh good Lord the verse you make. It gives a chap the bellyache."

<snip>

"First a little, thence to more, he sampled all earth's killing store. They put strichnine in his meat and stared agahst to watch him eat. They put arsenic in his cup and shook to see him drink it up. They shook, they stared, as white's thier shirt. Them it was their poison hurt. I tell the tale that I heard told. Mithradates, he died old."

The above is the first and last sections of a W. H. Auden poem. The point was that the poet was often criticized for "depressing" verse ("To An Athelete Dying Young" is one of his best known.) Auden's retort (via the above) was that since all is not positive in life, it serves us well to address the negative, in small doses, perhaps, but to certainly not ignore it, citing by example the tale of the Persian king Mithradates who, legend says, defeated those who would assasinate him (poison was the instrument of choice, there and then) by bulding a tolerance through sampling.

My point is that a restriction of all comments only to the positive can lead to very dangerous miconceptions about the state of things. Certainly, avoiding the negative is more comfortable; ignoring the negative IMO can be quite lethal.

Warm regards,

Kent Starr aka Wizzard=A9 mailto:wizzard@icanect.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:34:26 +0000 From: "Brian Dowtin" <dowtin@ncat.edu> To: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re:WP color codec & bw cam Message-ID: <9702180435.AA20238@garfield.ncat.edu>

John, Reading your reply - you mentioned you use the color codec w/color disabled - with your b&w cam..(or something similar) - The last time I tried - Cu reported that I didn't have a color cam, and it would use the grayscale codec. Can you 'splain?

-Brian Dowtin NCA&TSU CompSci

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:39:44 +1100 (EST) From: Ross Wheeler <rossw@albury.net.au> To: Steven Bolbot <sjb@dove.net.au> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: White Pine Reflector price Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.970218152616.2397H-100000@orac.albury.net.au>

> Hi > Can anyone tell me the current price for the White Pine Reflector software? > Thanks > - Steven Bolbot

Steven, last year (December) I chased WP for this. Eventually, after much effort, I got a reply, but for an ISP they want an arm and a leg. It took them about a month to even get back to me, and then their price was out of the question.

Given the TOTAL lack of support I experienced, the lack of professionalism, failure to appreciate application and respond suitably, I elected to NOT use their product, and now supply and recommend other software to our users. Their attitude has cost them much more than they may ever know. Several multinational companies I deal with as consultant have gone with solutions other than WP after consultation.

I did evaluate their product, and it worked *reasonably* well, but they turned a certain sale of several (dozen) reflectors and a couple of hundred copies of CuSeeme into a good deal of bad publicity they are unlikely to ever recover.

They need to re-think their policy, communications, price and attitude before I would even consider their product.

RossW (Very unimpressed ex-user!)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:47:32 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu> To: "Mark L. Bardenwerper" <bardenwe@vbe.com> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: No Picture with a Color QuickCam after trying Enhanced CU-SeeMe Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217233546.3528D-100000@serss1>

Baby,

#1 - reverse psychology doesn't work on me. #2 - The guy attacked me (you conveniently trimmed that part) and so I was acting in verbal self defense. #3 - SEVERAL people from THIS LIST expressed GREAT interest in this thread #4 - You bring up shit from months ago during me anti newbie campaign which I thought was cute. Several others thought it was funny too. Sorry you don't have a sense of humor. #5 - hahaha what kind of irreversible damage can I cause myself or others? You really think someone might commit a suicide upon being thoroughly verbally molested in email?

I still like you, though. Even though you are a homo and tried to hit on me via email that day (yes, I remember).

God bless, Ron

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Mark L. Bardenwerper wrote:

> Ron Elkayam wrote: > > > Don't forget to add the ":)", or we may wrongfully think you're an > > asshole. XXOOXXXOX > > Ron, I am tired of your negative dialogue on this listserv. I respect > your knowledge, but I really get fed up with this steady stream of > caustic remarks. I was going to say something a few messages ago, when > you boorishly barged in here with your stuff about your vendetta with > Packard Bell. Also you made some rather thoughtless remarks about a > newby. Remember when you were a newby? But you continue to hide behind > your modem like some drivers hide behind their cars. I am willing to bet > that face to face you are a gentleman. But get behind a computer and you > turn into some egotistical, insensitive jerk. I think that you should > get some help with your misplaced agressions before you do yourself or > someone else some irreparable harm. > Mark L. Bardenwerper >:~{ > > EVERYONE PLEASE LIMIT YOURSELVES TO POSITIVE COMMENTS FROM NOW ON! >

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:50:17 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Elkayam <relkay01@fiu.edu> To: Slider <mgp@inforamp.net> Cc: CU-SEEME-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: To Keep Or Not To Keep (Resending, modified) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.970217234835.3528E-100000@serss1>

Oh man haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you cool

i like.

On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Slider wrote:

> Dear Hoover Vacuum Cleaner Company, > > I recently purchased your Deluxe High-Speed-Turbo Suck-The-Life-Out-Of > Dirt model. Yesterday I noticed that my cat Fluffy was missing. You have > two days to return my beloved kitty. Your failure to do so will result > in my posting this letter to the alt.knitters.anonymous newgroup. > > Please govern yourself accordingly. > > Slider ;-) >

------------------------------

End of CU-SEEME-L Digest 1052 *****************************