CU, MeetingPoint, ERef, Etc. - Can we all get along?

Gary Dietz (
Sun, 10 May 1998 12:14:46 -0400


Summary of long note:
- I like Jason and Brian G and am often perplexed by their vitriol
- ERef and MPCS are different because they serve different purposes.
- WP charges because it does more (technically) and we provide more
(business wise)

As I've said publicly, on many occasions,:

1) Jason is a wonderful techie, and will do very well in his post-college
career after he engages in post University "real life" for a while. And I
*really do like him*. Really! (Insert handshake here)

2) Brian G. is also a brilliant guy. I like his input to the list, and
directly to White Pine. (Insert handshake here)

3) ERef is a great program, and I encourage people to use it when
appropriate. It is especially useful for people who want to experiment, have
a lot of previous systems experience, and want to essentially "run chat
rooms" on their (or their collge's) own dime. So use ERef if you need to.
Really. Its free!

4) What perplexes me is the CONSTANT snide bashing that both Brian and Jason
intermingle with their helpful tech notes, and ignoring the BLANTANTLY
factual misstatements they make. You know, they contantly put WP down when
essentially, we are "on the same side." Hard to believe sometimes, but true.

That being said, Jason's last comment, "White Pine loses" really set me off.
So, I hereby promptly igore its personal nature and simply ask the following
factual questions (and please take these questions in the context of #3 above.)

Again, I ask these questions NOT to put Brian or Jason down, but merely to
point out the fact that they both ignore a number of facts about what WP is
trying to do to get more and more people to accept group IP conferencing
solutions as a whole:

a) Can Eref handle H.323 clients like NetMeeting and Intel Business Video?

b) Can Eref handle T.120 conferences?

c) Can Eref accept and moderate connections to a full-fledged, instructor
controlled learning environment like ClassPoint?

d) Can Eref handle advanced bandwith management?

e) Can ERef link multiple servers and conferences within servers through a
graphical user interface?

f) Does Brian G. respond to specific customer needs on an as-needed
emergency basis? (B & J - there are a few bugs you DIDN'T find that we
fixed for customers who found them)

I'll answer this one - Of course not! Because that is not in the "business
plan" of a freeware application.

f) Is Brian G. working (publicly and behind the scenes) with large partners
to make IP conferencing a larger cultural reality beyond its current limited

I'll answer this one - maybe a little. But for the most part, that is not
in the "business plan" of a freeware application.

g) Will Brian G. arrange on-site demos and installations to sites who need

I'll answer this one - Of course not! Because that is not in the "business
plan" of a freeware application. (And he has a full-time job he must attend
so that he can pay for his hobbies!)

h) Will Brian G. do on-site training?

i) Does ERef provide full online and printed documentation?

I could go on.

My SUMMARY point is that YES White Pine charges. Of course we do. We are
trying to do very different things that Brian G is. I am contstantly
perplexed at how Jason and Brian ignore the upside to what WP is doing.

Finally, as I've said privately to Jason -- If I were you, graduating soon,
and being as smart as you are, I'd leverage my abilities to turn this very
specialized knowledge into a big career coupe. This involves not only
technical knowldege, but the ability to not burn bridges and get along with

As always, your humble (and consistently list-bashed ;-) servant,