Re: Refs or no refs

Rolf Hemmerling (
Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:04:06 +0100

Jason Williams wrote:
> Actually, that's not quite true...I believe you're taking my statement
> "can receive" to mean "will receive". From what I understand, the
> reflector regulates the bandwidth that gets distributed to everyone. >=
Just because it CAN send 20kbps to you doesn't mean it will.=20
Yes, I often wonder if I have just one or two windows open why I don=B4t
get my full 28.8 transmission speed for these two !!! Is there
*anything* I can do by myself ? Probably not !

> The big difference though is that you can't control how many people
> watch one person. If you have one person connected to 6 people their >=
bandwidth is distributed among those 6 regardless of if you want to
> only see that one person. Increasing the scale and things get even=20
> worse. With 20 people connected to one person, each person only gets
> 1/20th of their sending limit.=20
I may not control but learn how many people look at a certain user=B4s
video.. by trying to look at it by myself !! So if there is no pic after
2 minutes, I just close my video window. From my pov, this behaviour is
"normal" and is "right". So if I see a moving video picture, I will stay
with that video window (and close even the rest), and maybe I will try
to contact this user, just because his/her connection to me is fast
(must not be vice-versa, I know).

Note that I use the WP 2.1.1x version, and that there were comments on
a certain windows-close bug of this version. I hope (?) that this bug is
not the major reason for all my complains. In fact, I would like to
hope that it is, so that shifting to another client versions gets me
rid of the real problems with refs ! Currently, I stay with WP 2.1.1x on
a trial base.
> Perhaps that's just net congestion from your location. Reflectors do
> have the effect of requiring all traffic to go through a certain IP.=20
> If you have poor response from that IP, all the traffic from that
> reflector will be horrible as well. That's why a lot of overseas
> people I've come across tend to stay on the overseas reflectors closer
> to them. Ivisit directs IP to direct IP so you can get great response =
> on a few people at least (or can anyway).
I am surfing at calm times (5.00-8.00 CET =3D 4.00-7.00 GMT), this is the
time with the highest transmission rates, both in Europe and in USA !!
> I've been on a reflector of 20-25 people for a few hours at a time and
> never seen people halt. A lot of the problems can be attributed to=20
> the "close all" bug of the White Pine 2.X clients on the PC. Try
> hitting the close all button a few times and only opening up a few=20
> vids at a time.
I will have a try !
> This seems to be fixed in the 3.X versions from what I can tell.
But not with the new 2.1.2 version, as I assume !?!

Well.. lurkers. You said:
> In part, they use the same bandwidth that any participant uses with
> respect to OpenContinue packets. On larger, more populated reflectors
> this has a more severe effect on modem users than the limitation of
> bandwidth of the reflector. I've seen modem users timeout of a
> Cornell reflector with only 25-28 participants on the reflector. The
> reflector itself had 45Mbps bandwidth available and was only using=20
> 1.8Mbps of it.
And what does this mean, if we can=B4t change it ? What can the next
generation of CU refs change ? If I understand You, the CU clients can=B4=
be modified to improve the situation at all !

> My only suggestion is to find reflectors which are closer to you. You
> can use tracert in Win95 to figure out the shortest path.
> Even if the other 90% weren't empty, it wouldn't help you from what it
> sounds like.
Thanks for mentioning the TRACERT utility. But.. I am surfing at calm
times.. and there are no refs in Germany at all (besides HEAVEN),
especially there are no refs at german universities !

> I disagree...I use CU to chat with friends and meet new people that
> may/may not become friends. A lot of the private reflectors out there
> exist to chat and see friends since not everyone has equal chances of
> getting to private reflectors.
I agree with You.. but I don=B4t see what was really different with my
statement, anyhow :-)


/ / / Alone on the data highway...
/ / like on an allee in Hannover-Herrenhausen
/ / / Rolf Hemmerling, Germany
/ /